Fbc Jax Watchdogs: Wanted: Courageous Seminary Students
LYNCHBURG, Va. (ABP) — The president of Liberty Theological Seminary, who apologized in February for calling the head of the Southern Baptist Convention International Mission Board a liar, is now being questioned about his own testimony of conversion from radical Islam to Christianity. Liberty University's board of directors decided not to reprimand Ergun Caner, dean of the theology school since 2005, after conducting an inquiry into questions raised in numerous blogs about his credibility. The ruling, by Christianity Today, follows weeks of questions in the Baptist blogosphere about written descriptions of Caner's academic credentials and apparent embellishments in recorded versions of his testimony, preached in prominent Baptist pulpits over the years. On April 26, Focus on the Family radio re-broadcast a sermon preached shortly after Sept. 11, 2001, at in Plano, Texas, in which Caner said he was born in Sweden, grew up in Turkey and did not learn English until moving to the United States in 1978. He claimed he was part of 'Islamic Jihad' and said it was 'my people' who carried out the horrors of the day.
The problem, according to various Internet sites, is that none of that is true. Questions about when he came to U.S. A Christian blog called Witnesses Unto Me posted legal documents showing that Caner was born in Sweden in November 1966 and moved to Ohio in 1969 or 1970.
Other postings questioned public comments that he was trained as a terrorist, cited evidence that he lived a fairly normal childhood in Ohio and said no evidence could be found to support his claims that he has debated many religious leaders of Islamic and other non-Christian faiths. Caner and his brother, Emir, president of the Georgia Baptist Convention-affiliated, are often featured in Southern Baptist circles as experts about Islam. Their 2002 book, Unveiling Islam: An Insider's Look at Muslim Life and Beliefs, was the source former SBC President Jerry Vines cited to defend his remark that year labeling the Prophet Muhammad a 'demon-possessed pedophile,' which made headlines both in the United States and the Muslim world. That reputation was the basis for recent to Ergun Caner's criticism of the 'Camel Method,' a way for Christian missionaries to use the Quran as a bridge to discussing the gospel, as fundamentally dishonest. The controversy eventually made it into the. About the same time, Mohammad Khan, a 22-year-old Muslim college student in London, posted 17 YouTube videos labeling Caner's conversion story a fraud. Khan said the videos include errors that even a nominal Muslim wouldn't make.
Most of Khan's videos have been removed over allegations of copyright violations and his YouTube account has been. 'Testimonies of ex-Muslims who have embraced Christianity have become widespread on the television as well as on the Internet,' Khan. 'Some of these conversion stories may well be true, while most of them can easily be disproven. These false testimonies are being utilized as a means to indoctrinate the minds of non-Muslims with false information about Islam, with the main aim of generating a hatred toward Islam amongst the masses.' Khan contacted James White, director of a Christian apologetics organization in Phoenix who had sparred with Caner in the past over theological issues like Calvinism. White, an elder in the Reformed Baptist Church who has taught at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, said that unlike Khan, he does not doubt that Caner is a former Muslim, but he called upon Caner to explain holes in his conversion story.
Caner's response Caner responded with a Feb. 25 that he would be surprised if there were not 'discrepancies' to be found in the hundreds of sermons he has preached over two decades in ministry. He admitted to 'pulpit mistakes' but insisted 'I have never intentionally misled anyone.' Tom Rich, a Southern Baptist blogger in Florida who maintains the FBC Jax Watchdog blog, found that hard to swallow. Rich that he remembers believing that Caner had been trained as a jihadist terrorist when he heard him for the first time in a November 2001 sermon at First Baptist Church, Jacksonville, Fla., along with 9,000 other worshipers still shell-shocked from the horror of 9/11. 'We are on the verge of an evangelical crisis over Caner's embellishments and the refusal of the evangelical leaders and evangelical press to hold Caner accountable for his decade-long deception over his upbringing,' Rich May 4.
Liberty officials downplayed the whole controversy as the kind of pulpit exaggeration euphemistically characterized as 'ministerially speaking.' 'It's not an ethical issue,' Elmer Towns, co-founder — along with the late Jerry Falwell — of Liberty University and dean of its School of Religion, told Christianity Today. 'It's not a moral issue. We give faculty a certain amount of theological leverage.'
Comparisons to Mike Warnke case That isn't satisfying critics, who are Caner to Mike Warnke, a supposed former Satanic high priest and popular Christian comedian as a fraud by Cornerstone magazine in 1992. At least one is expected to be proposed at the upcoming Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting censuring Caner, citing Liberty's ties to the SBC-affiliated Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia. 'I was born in Istanbul, Turkey,' Caner is saying in one video. 'I am a sand monkey,' he continued — a disparaging for people from the Middle East and North Africa. 'We came to this country and to this state to build mosques here,' Caner is heard saying in an recording speaking to a Baptist group in Ohio.
'We were, quote unquote, missionaries to you. We came in '78 when Ayatollah Khomeini said, 'We will not stop until America is an Islamic nation.' ' In his Prestonwood sermon, titled 'From Jihad to Jesus,' which is not listed in Focus on the Family, Caner said he didn't know much about Christians the first 17 years of his life, because 'there's not that many of them in Turkey or in Sweden.' In an on the 'Rick and Bubba' radio show, Caner described himself as 'Turkish — 21 generations' — and said he came to America when he was 13 years old. He said all he knew of America was from Turkish broadcasts of American television shows like 'The Dukes of Hazzard,' 'The Andy Griffith Show' and sports programming during the 1970s. He claimed he was still learning English when we accepted Christ during his senior year in high school.
Jason Smathers, a Christian website designer, however, dug up a of documents indicating Caner's family was already in the United States when his brother Emir, the youngest of three sons, was born in August 1970. Caner's parents began divorce proceedings in 1975, when Ergun Caner was 8 years old. A 1978 divorce awarded custody of him and his two brothers to their mother. A separation agreement the boys would spend five weeks a year with their father. The father wanted the boys to be raised as Muslims, while the mother, whose religion is not mentioned in the documents, they should receive religious training through each parent so they would be better equipped to make their own religious choices at a 'sufficient age' to decide. Liberty University has not made any formal comment on the allegations against Caner. Caner has to be interviewed.
'I shall not participate in this anymore,' he said of the criticism being levied against him in his single public so far. 'This is absolutely of no interest to me.'
An online biography of Caner on Liberty's website was reworded after some of the allegations were first raised. 'raised as the son of a Muslim leader in Turkey,' Caner is now as 'raised as a devout Sunni Muslim along with his two brothers.'
Also gone is the remark that 'Caner has debated Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and other religious leaders in 13 countries and 35 states.' -30- is senior writer for Associated Baptist Press. Embracing the power of story We share a new series in BNG’s Storytelling Projects.
Listen to the stories of the more than 268,000 in Hidalgo County living below their federal poverty threshold and you will learn that the Rio Grande waters are rarely hospitable to newcomers, most of whom must take on the slow, agonizing work of rebuilding life from scratch on the other side. We created because we believe stories, rooted in the Jesus Story, have the power not only to inform but to transform people and communities.
They can be sources of spiritual insight, imagination, creativity and hope for all who seek justice and mercy.
As reported in the, a Jacksonville police detective used the power of the Sheriff's Office to subpoena records from Google to identify an anonymous blogger who has been critical of Rev. Mac Brunson, the pastor at First Baptist Church of Jacksonville. The church made a complaint about “possible criminal overtones” on the blog, and the police detective launched an investigation. As it so happens, the police detective is also a member of FBC-Jacksonville and a “” for pastor Brunson.
Conflict of interest? It sure looks that way to me. But of course, FBC-Jacksonville is one of the largest and most powerful mega-churches in the whole Southern Baptist Convention. Criticism had to be stopped! There appears to be no record of exactly what criminal activity or “overtones” were used to justify getting the subpoena. The records of the subpoena request were destroyed, purportedly “.” However, it’s undisputed that the detective found no wrongdoing.
The blog made no threat of any kind. (Wouldn’t you think the detective could have just looked at the and figured that out before getting a subpoena?) Nevertheless, even though the detective found no wrongdoing, he still provided the name of the anonymous blogger to First Baptist Church of Jacksonville - i.e., to the detective’s own pastor and church leaders. The church then issued a trespass warning against the blogger and his wife, banning them from the church. I’m told that the couple has three children. So the leaders at FBC-Jacksonville finally got what they wanted.
They had been upset about the blogger for quite a while, even issuing a rather against him. After all, the blog “criticisms of Brunson’s $300,000 salary his construction of a ‘lavish’ office suite, accepting a $307,000 land gift from church members and putting his wife on the payroll.” The church claimed the criticism was “a violation of Scripture” and of church bylaws. (Remember those?) The Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office has issued a, defending their detective’s conduct. But, in my mind, this official attempt to defend the indefensible only makes the whole saga all the worse. And exactly how do they explain the fact that they also subpoenaed records from Google about and the? Croft, who has never been anonymous, blogs about the scandal involving Jacksonville, who is now charged with lewd conduct and child molestation. Despite numerous allegations of “sexual improprieties” at his prior Texas churches, former Southern Baptist president and celebrity evangelist Jerry Vines encouraged Gilyard in his ministry and “” him for his out-of-state troubles.
So, the Gilyard scandal reflects back on Vines, who was pastor of First Baptist Church of Jacksonville until just a couple years ago. Perhaps the church didn’t like seeing criticism of its prior pastor either. And what about New BBC? That’s a blogger who writes about still another scandalized Southern Baptist megachurch, in Memphis. It’s the church where senior pastor Steve Gaines kept quiet about another minister’s admitted child molestation. Yet, even after it all came to light, Gaines didn’t face any serious consequence; the church still keeps him as its senior pastor. What possible justification could there have been to subpoena records on an anonymous blogger in Memphis other than maybe the fact that these Baptist good-ol-boy high-honchos stick together and try to help one another out?
“.” That’s how one columnist aptly described this over-the-top use of power at FBC-Jax. About now, I figure you’re probably wondering what the FBC-Jax mess has to do with clergy sex abuse. After all, the Watchdog blog never made any accusations of that kind. But consider this: If this is how a Baptist church handles criticism about the pastor’s salary, how do you imagine it would handle a more serious accusation involving sexual abuse?
Well, I can tell you how Baptist churches typically handle those sorts of accusations. Essentially, they try to stone the accuser back into oblivion. Church leaders circle the wagons and no one in denominational leadership will intercede. It gets ugly.
Power without accountability leads to abuse of power. It’s a pattern we have seen in Baptist churches all across the country, and it’s a pattern that allows all manner of clergy bullying and abuse to go unchecked. It’s why Baptists desperately need a denominational review board to foster clergy accountability and to provide a safe place where people can report abusive ministers.
It’s the sort of accountability mechanism that most of this country’s other major faith groups already have. Incidentally, this isn’t the first time I’ve raised my eyebrows at a story involving Jacksonville law enforcement and First Baptist Church of Jacksonville., one of the church deacons was arrested on. Even though the deacon originally faced 13 felony counts, he got a plea bargain deal of only one year in jail followed by 5 years on probation.
Victims’ families urged a longer sentence, but according to a news report, the deacon’s “” urged leniency. I wonder exactly who those “associates” were. The article doesn’t say, but I can’t help but wonder whether some of First Baptist’s leaders may have been among those who convinced the prosecutor and judge to give their deacon-pedophile a light sentence. The mother of two of the boys the light sentence victimized them all over again. The former deacon was less than a year ago, asking the judge to make his light sentence even lighter by waiving the last part of his probation period. After the hearing, one of the deacon’s victims how difficult it was: “It’s hard knowing this man stalked me and my friends for three years and did the things that he did, and then he can walk around the streets and drive around Jacksonville and carry on like nothing ever happened - it just kills me.” Column updated and revised 4/14/09. See also:,' Associated Baptist Press, 4/15/09.
For those of us who have been in the SBC workings for years all of this 'activity' comes as no surprise. For example, when my first wife passed away with cancer and I dared to 'date' a divorced woman, a man who worked for our local Baptist University came to our town and had a 'secret' meeting with some of my deacons to suggest ways that they could us to get rid of me.
When I confronted the man and the President of te university they did not deny it. They said that 'maybe I should consider leaving as 'divorce' is a problem for them! I did not leave, they could not fire me, so they attacked my three children who had rcently lost their mother. Anything is possible for these people when they feel uncomfortable or want someone out of the way. Of courese the rank and file member has trouble believing that their 'man of God' would do something so foolish and down right mean. But, I am here to tell you they will! That is why my heart goes out to the victims who turn trustinly to their church believing they will do the Christian thing.
Anonymous said. You are really stretching a point and the truth to try to link Mac Brunson and FBC, Jacksonville to sexual predators and abuse. Its sad to see you accepting the word of anonymous bloggers as truth.
Fbc Jax Watchdogs Wanted Courageous Seminary Students
I can guarantee you that there is more to this issue than what you are reporting. Its too bad you're not a member of that church because then you could (and would) go sit down and talk with Dr. Surely there's something more important to write about than a bunch of discontented church members and their gripes about pastors' salaries, homes, and gifts. This breaks my heart, what the boys went through, and how the deacon got away with it. I was furious in my own lawsuit when the opposing lawyer started subpoenaing family members of victims in case they were going to testify for me.
(I wasn't asking them to testify for me, I specifically said I wasn't going to because I was friends with them and knew the type of pain they carried. I sort of requested a gentlewoman's agreement to leave them alone or treat them with utmost care if they found they had to talk to other victims and their families. I'm sure they used my openness about how I loved someone to try and scare me into a settlement.) May I say, this is much, much worse. Anything that causes pain is horrible, but to use legal methods like this!
It's straight out awful. I'm so sorry.
To everyone hurt by this, I'm really sorry. I guess from here we band together, and slowly heal to scar tissue. I'm behind all of you as publicly as I can be, from my own ex-denomination to the place where you are.
To Anon 1:49 - Despite your minimizing view of things, it's obvious that the Florida Times-Union considered this something very important to write about because they made this a front-page story. Maybe church members can't see that it's something important, but other people do. It's also obvious that the Florida Times-Union reporter did indeed speak with Mac Brunson. And what did Brunson say? He called the blogger 'a sociopath.' John: I'm so sorry to hear this piece of your story about how you and your children were attacked.
'Anything is possible for these people.' Sad to say, I know you're right. It's a lesson that Baptist leaders have taught me and taught me well. I know, of course, that there are many good and able ministers within the denomination, but I also know that, too often, Baptists display a pattern of clergy unaccountability, and it's a pattern that allows bullying and abuse to go unchecked. Anonymous said. 'Butt out of fights that you don't belong in.
You're not a member of FBC, Jax and therefore it is none of your business.' FBC folks crack me up. Mac made it everyone's business when he got his 'bodyguard' and sheriff's office investigator to get subpeona's on WD, Tiffany croft and BBC. But the FBC folks just keep pretending that Mac did not take this outside the church. Mac is the one who made it a national issue! Christa, I have a question. Since Mac says that he was being stalked and had his mail stolen, shouldn't there be a police report somewhere when he filed a complaint?
Can I call my sheriff's department and get them to do the same for me without some sort of documentation? A police report or anything? And what about the accusations against Tiffany and BBC? Where are the complaints against them for whatever they did?
Something is fishy. But all will be ok according to the FBC Jax folks if people would just stop asking questions! Anonymous said.
The biggest joke of this whole thing is that all of you seem to know exactly what Mac did and when he did it. You might want to stop for a minute and actually consider the fact that the Board of Directors of the church may have instigated and sanctioned the actions. That church is made up of very wealthy, reputable, and Godly people and I hardly think they would enter into this action lightly. I definitely wish there would be a trial and then the facts would then be facts instead of a bunch of people speculating on what they think they know.
Why don't you get back to predators and sex abuse and quit pontificating about the situation in Jacksonville. You do notice that noone on any blog has any first hand information from Mac Brunson or anyone in leadership at the church. That should tell you something. 'Since Mac says that he was being stalked and had his mail stolen, shouldn't there be a police report somewhere when he filed a complaint?' That's what I would expect. What do I know? I'm a mere mortal.
It might be different for the likes of Mac Brunson. 'Can I call my sheriff's department and get them to do the same for me without some sort of documentation?' I don't know about you, Lydia, but I don't think I know anyone in MY sheriff's office who would do that for me without some documentation. But again, I'm a mere mortal. 'And what about the accusations against Tiffany and BBC?
Where are the complaints against them for whatever they did?' Good question.
According to the Florida Times-Union article, the records of the actual subpoena request were destroyed 'according to the policy' at the time. Wonder if there's a written copy of that policy anywhere? But of course, what I don't understand is why the police couldn't simply look at the blogs and readily see that there wasn't anything criminal about them. But as I said. I'm just a mere mortal. My understanding is limited and my opinions are NOT inspired by God. Anonymous wrote, 'You are really stretching a point and the truth to try to link Mac Brunson and FBC, Jacksonville to sexual predators and abuse.'
That church has been sheltering Dave Hyles for years without warning the congregation about him or ever confronting Dave over his unbelievable history of domestic abuse, pornography, and adultery. It's a horrible church run by horrible men, but everybody gets to play the Christian game without any of the actual cost of being a Christian, so there are plenty of takers. Anonymous also wrote: 'If you do, your credibility on sex abuse is going to go right out the window. Butt out of fights that you don't belong in.
You're not a member of FBC, Jax and therefore it is none of your business.' Ah, where would the SBC be without their anti-biblical and godless myth that what goes on in one church is nobody else's business? It just lets your sleazy elders get away with so much! But Paul wrote that we are all members one of another. You kill a child in Illinois and claim to be a Christian, that is my business, even when you come to roost in a church in Florida.
And if Brunson is so keen on local church autonomy, why did he have that JSO stooge look up two people who are not even members of FBC Jax and had never so much as suggested anything criminal or violent in their blogs? Anonymous, Dave Hyles has been attending there for several years. Nobody was warned. He has never been made to face church discipline. Look, let's face it: the SBC demands only that eldership be male (which I still agree is what the Bible teaches), that you be anti-abortion, and that you vote Republican. And of course that you be dunked in water.
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Because we all know there is spiritual power in a tub of water. (It's one of the divine mysteries.) Oh yes, and that you be a tee-totaller, even though the Lord was not. Otherwise, anything goes in the SBC.
They would be the LAST entity to actually insist upon Christian integrity in their members, and certainly not in their pastors. After all, being a political conservative is the same thing as godliness, right? It is.isn't it? Anonymous said.
Thanks, Christa. I thought I was going crazy. Too many are acting like this whole investigation, the subpeona's and the process are just normal everyday business in Jax. Scary thought. Jeri, Let me affirm that I am politically conservative, orthodox and egal. And I am appalled at what I am seeing in the SBC. What is even scarier is that 'church discipline' is becoming hugly popular with these little popes.
But they are disciplining the wrong people! (example: Hyles) And who disciplines the discipliners? Because authority is the name of the game these days. 'And you wonder why Paul told women to be silent in church?'
And you wonder why I don't like church? I really WANT to go to a church that treats me like a second-rate person because I haven't a wiggly appendage to hurt small children with and because I wasn't a 'pure virgin' on my wedding day due to being raped at the age of 7.
I'm pretty happy with my atheist, feminist husband, 'pagan' beliefs, and you know, an actual flower of self-like from the pain that is sadistic child sodomy 15 feet from the inanimate, staring pulpit. This makes me sick to the stomach.
I can't understand people like you, with no compassion. You're on a site for survivors of CHILD RAPE, some of them brave men who were sodomized as children and spoke up. What sort of God do you worship and follow that permits you show such cruelty? 'What sort of God do you worship and follow that permits you show such cruelty?'
The truly terrible thing is that, in Baptist-land, the attitude reflected by Anon 7:29 isn't even anything unusual. I think the god of people such as this is a self-made god of their own small minds - a god whom they themselves have created to serve their own pathetic sick system - a system in which they are held accountable to no one and in which they can rationalize callous cruelty on the grounds of 'the Bible tells me so.' And with that as the constant refrain, the people in the pews typically say 'Amen.'
I'm not aware of any place where Paul says anything about all churches being so radically independent and autonomous that Baptist leaders are biblically blessed in turning a blind eye to clergy child molestation and in allowing reported molesting ministers to roam from one congregation to another without even looking into it. But that's what Baptist leaders do. And then they try to tell us that this no-accountability system is biblically sanctioned in the name of 'congregational autonomy.'
Annonympus wrote: '.only elders can judge an another elder. Deacons like these are rather fundamentally wrong.they need to understand the original context meant a 'specialized servant' and one appointed by an elder.' Time to read the whole New Testament then. The Council at Jerusalem was made up of elders, and they heard grievances in open court from anybody who came.
The disobedient and self-serving autonomy of the SBC is NOT the biblical model. In fact, matters in churches were raised to the Council at Jerusalem if the elders in the local churches would not deal with the matter. The problem of Diotrephes was escalated; hence John's decision to go see to the matter himself, after Diotrophes refused to let in elders who would have restored proper government to his self-run autocracy. Christian transactions of church rule are to be carried out openly and transparently. The SBC's closed door meetings and back room deals are just one more product of their wicked, unrepentant hearts that are determined to coerce Christianity into a religion that suits them.
Anonymous wrote, 'And you wonder why Paul told women to be silent in church?' This isn't church. Again, the SBC addiction to power makes them skew everything. Paul wanted public worship to proceed in orderly fashion, and so the women, who found vast new freedoms in Christianity to be heard and to speak, had to be reigned in when it came to public worship. These were people who previously had lived their lives in the kitchen, except when they went to draw water. Some of them did not even eat with their husbands. That's how badly women were treated.
Now they were free, and like newly freed people of little education, they had to learn public civility and good manners. But Paul's statement is not a blanket issues of subservience for women. After all, he COMMANDED the church at Rome to give Phebe whatever she asked for. She was being sent on missions to churches to oversee and give account of distributions to the poor. So the misogyny of the back room boys of the SBC should be shown for exactly what it is: misogyny.
Anonymous said. I had a psychologist friend read through some of these posts and he was astounded. He said, 'I have never seen so many women with authority, anger, and guilt issues in my life.' I knew you would all go nuts over his assessment so I had another lady psychologist review it and she came up with the exact same conclusions. Ladies-you need to get some psychological help and you need to get it quickly. Your scars, guilt, and anger is eating you alive.
Quit blaming every preacher that lives and do something about your illnesses. Assuming Anon 8:54 is the same Anon as the earlier 7:29 one, I guess we females on the blog should be honored that he's now calling us 'Ladies' instead of 'a bunch of hens.' But like he said earlier, I guess he's just having 'fun' with us. If Anon actually cared about the need of clergy abuse survivors for psychological help, he would go to work to convince Southern Baptist leaders to do what most Catholic dioceses in this country now do - offer and pay for independent professional counseling for clergy abuse survivors who come forward. But of course, Baptists are way behind most other major faith groups in terms of showing any actual care for those wounded by clergy sex abuse. Personally, I can't help but wonder whether Anon may have violated some law somewhere.
After all, some states have laws against impersonating psychologists. And you wonder why Paul told women to be silent in church? April 18, 2009 7:29 AM Sheesh! The Biblical illiteracy out there is astonishing. Would you mind finding that 'law' Paul refers to for me?
I assume you are referring to 1 Corin 14. When you find that 'law', let me know. (It would be a NEW law because women taught and were prophets in the OT) (Hint: It is in the Mishna) Also the word for silence means total silence as in NO singing, small chat at all. YOu think that is what Paul was talking about?
That is exactly what was taught in the Talmud. (That is why it is quoted as the 'law also says' as in ORAL LAW) Read verse 36 and then do a deep study of the Greek.
Not what your 'pastor' says that benefits him but a real study. You will find that verse 36 NEGATES verses 34-35. In the Greek, it goes like this: What??? Are you kidding? Did YOU write the Word of God?
Are YOU the only one it reached? It is truly scary what people believe but then it does elevate them over others, doesn't it. Anonymous said. I had a psychologist friend read through some of these posts and he was astounded. He said, 'I have never seen so many women with authority, anger, and guilt issues in my life.' I knew you would all go nuts over his assessment so I had another lady psychologist review it and she came up with the exact same conclusions. Ladies-you need to get some psychological help and you need to get it quickly.
Your scars, guilt, and anger is eating you alive. Quit blaming every preacher that lives and do something about your illnesses. April 19, 2009 8:54 PM So, you like it when little children are sodomized and raped? You think we should look the other way and not 'touch the anointed authority'? I can plainly see that you would in order to protect the 'pastor'. People like you are the reason our churches are not safe for kids.
Ask your psychologist 'friend' what to make of a pastor that protects an abuser or a pedophile. But then, I doubt any believes you have a psychologist friend. Unless of course, she is also in a cult. 'The leadership will become mere macromangers of their assmeblies devoid of the Holy Spirit's power.'
That is already the case. They are temples of entertainment that have become businesses with profitable career paths for certain folks and their families. The Body of Christ does not operate this way.
Those who read scripture and are taught by the Holy Spirit know this. God has left these churches to their own devices and many delude themselves that 'numbers' means blessings when it is simply a sick cult and worshiping of churchianity. Anonymous wrote, 'I had a psychologist friend read through some of these posts and he was astounded. He said, 'I have never seen so many women with authority, anger, and guilt issues in my life.' Wow, so you know two psychologists and were able to reaach both of them and get their conclusions in a weekend?
You know what I like best about your story? It's so believable. Honest, it really is. I'm sure anybody under the age of 11 would believe you. Hey, when you hang out with your psychologist buddies, do they smoke pipes and look wise? I saw that once in a movie. So is it realistic?
In any case, once you wake up from your happy little daydream that all sorts of people with more education than you take your side, try to address the matter from the Bible. We're not arguing psychology here, but the text of Scripture. And the SBC has departed from it.
Dr Mayo Hamburgwcheese said. Hello, I am Psychologist Dr Mayo Hamburgwcheese. I would just like to say that I concur with Dr Anonymous. You ladies have huge problems.
Now go get me my slippers and stop worrying about conscience. The Psychology Dept at SBC Headquarters have determined that conscience is no longer necessary as long as you have a male pastor earning 300K a year. Remember, if you are influential, you do not need conscience, especially if you are a woman. It just makes you act looney. That's a psychological term, you know. This is a great interview.
Please listen to it. Podcast (7MB Mp3) of Dr. Bruce Prescott's 4-19-09 'Religious Talk' radio interview with Rev.
Wade Burleson, pastor of Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid, Oklahoma and author of 'Hardball Religion: Feeling the Fury of Fundamentalism.' We talk about Burleson's transition from being a trusted foot soldier in the post-1979 Southern Baptist Convention to being a dissident blogger against SBC fundamentalism. His blogging proved so controversial that he became the only Southern Baptist trustee to ever be 'recommended for removal or officially censured.' Despite that, Burleson and other dissident SBC bloggers were instrumental in electing Frank Page as President of the Southern Baptist Convention in 2006 and 2007. Anonymous said. It is difficult for me to believe that there is actually someone out there targeting Baptist Churches and predators there. Target the real problem, predators of youngsters, whether they be Baptist, Catholic, or Feet Washing Icons of the Word (my own creation for this comment.) As a heartbroken member of a church recovering from staff indecency, I want punishment, forgiveness, restoration, and whatever it takes to be Christian if you please.
Self-righteous indignation does not flatter any of us including the hurt and angry author of this internet site. But, please keep sight of the fact that Christians fight the only wars where we seem to bury our wounded. We need to be aware. We need to stop abuse.
We need to hate the sin and bring it to light, yet love the sinner and pray for his/her restoration following appropriate punishment.